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Is it acceptable to host contests that exclude players based on sexual orientation?

Posts
50
Created
18.06.2020
Author
Channing
Channing
Level 42
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Posts: 85
Freethinkerland
19.06.2020 18:14:02
Channing

I hope my previous post makes things clearer. I do not have an issue with the contest itself, just the inclusion/exclusion part. I hadn't seen it in BL before with the exception of contests restricted by state (which is something we get to choose).
Thank you for explaining further and for sharing your own personal struggle. The family part is something I can relate to, sadly. I appreciate your entire message. 

Mona Elizabeth
wrote:
I never thought I would see the day where someone who is a member of the LGBT community would have a problem with spaces meant exclusively for LGBT folk, but I guess it had to happen eventually. The contest is open to you, Channing, because you've made it very clear that you are bisexual (identifying as straight does not change your actual sexuality), so what's the big deal? I haven't seen any cishet people upset with the contest, and they're the ones being 'discriminated' against according to you. BL is a place I would definitely expect to host contests that uplift marginalized and minority groups, so I don't understand why you think it goes against what BL stands for. Should cishet people also expect to have pride parades in real life? (This question undoubtedly holds more weight than the one regarding the BL pride contest, but I think the comparison still stands)
Now, Channing, I have a small personal message for you, as I often find myself struggling with my bisexuality as well. I am not out to my own parents, as I often hear them say frightening and disgusting things about the LGBT community in general. THANK YOU for all of the volunteering/donating/other work you do for the LGBT community. Please do not take the first part of this comment as an attack, but rather a plea for you to understand why spaces made exclusively for LGBT folk like you and I are so important. 


19.06.2020 18:14:02

~~You can't argue with IGNORANCE~~


LillyAnn
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Freethinkerland
19.06.2020 20:25:12
LillyAnn

Here is cishet person. Do I feel offended or restricted in any way with having LGBT+ contest only? -Not at all!
Cishet people can make outfits with pride thematics outside of the contest as a way of support and respect.

As long as LGBT+ contest is inclusive within the community I guess it's totally Ok to have one.

Exclusion is sometimes positive, not often but sometimes it simply is if it serves as a way to give equal chances. For instance, I wouldn't mind either if there is a contest for himbos only. They are still minority at the site and items-wise they don't have equal chances as bimbos have. So making contests only for them is totally Ok from the perspective of giving them equal chances, respect, giving them space where they may have their fun, and so on. In contests where they compete together with high level bimbos their chances are not equal. I also wouldn't mind contest only for players that are under level 30 for instance. Again for the same reason, it gives them equal chances within their group (or level range in this case) because when they compete with high level bimbos who are 50+ level they just don't have equal chances. In contests open for bimbos and himbos of all levels lowering criteria down to suit better low level players or himbos wouldn't be completely fair toward high level bimbos who invested a lot in their outfits. In that sense, exclusion is sometimes positive.

If LGBT+ community want contest only for them it doesn't mean they don't want to interact with cishet people. It only means they want a contest where they are given safe space and equal chances within the community. I actually like the inputs about prizes that it's fair to give them only to people who truly belong to the community and not to allies or even worse, to someone who entered the contest just for the sake of winning while doesn't recognize themselves as allies and even less as a member of community.

I didn't want to refer to historical part of the issue and weight of it because other people already made good points and they certainly know much more about it than me. I just wanted to point to inclusivity/exclusivity part and in which contexts I believe it's Ok.

19.06.2020 20:25:12

Welcome new bimbos & himbos ❣   

I identify as transparent, pronounces who/where
(don't take this seriously, because if you do it's your own fault)

Channing
Level 42
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Freethinkerland
19.06.2020 21:45:05
Channing

Great response! I agree and thank you for your perspective :)


LillyAnn
wrote:
Here is cishet person. Do I feel offended or restricted in any way with having LGBT+ contest only? -Not at all!
Cishet people can make outfits with pride thematics outside of the contest as a way of support and respect.

As long as LGBT+ contest is inclusive within the community I guess it's totally Ok to have one.

Exclusion is sometimes positive, not often but sometimes it simply is if it serves as a way to give equal chances. For instance, I wouldn't mind either if there is a contest for himbos only. They are still minority at the site and items-wise they don't have equal chances as bimbos have. So making contests only for them is totally Ok from the perspective of giving them equal chances, respect, giving them space where they may have their fun, and so on. In contests where they compete together with high level bimbos their chances are not equal. I also wouldn't mind contest only for players that are under level 30 for instance. Again for the same reason, it gives them equal chances within their group (or level range in this case) because when they compete with high level bimbos who are 50+ level they just don't have equal chances. In contests open for bimbos and himbos of all levels lowering criteria down to suit better low level players or himbos wouldn't be completely fair toward high level bimbos who invested a lot in their outfits. In that sense, exclusion is sometimes positive.

If LGBT+ community want contest only for them it doesn't mean they don't want to interact with cishet people. It only means they want a contest where they are given safe space and equal chances within the community. I actually like the inputs about prizes that it's fair to give them only to people who truly belong to the community and not to allies or even worse, to someone who entered the contest just for the sake of winning while doesn't recognize themselves as allies and even less as a member of community.

I didn't want to refer to historical part of the issue and weight of it because other people already made good points and they certainly know much more about it than me. I just wanted to point to inclusivity/exclusivity part and in which contexts I believe it's Ok.


19.06.2020 21:45:05

~~You can't argue with IGNORANCE~~


railophone
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Freethinkerland
19.06.2020 22:37:50
railophone

Channing wrote:
If you wish to talk about LGBT rights, history, Pride, etc or how "real" life works, please create another thread for it. 

How are you going to say this while literally making a thread about a Pride contest... you can't separate LGBT rights, history, or real life from this thread because that's the literal whole reason why the contest was made in the first place.
I appreciate you taking the time to read and try to understand everything that's been said, but then you go and say stuff like this, and I really wonder if you really get it at all.

19.06.2020 22:37:50
You can't keep doing shitty things and then feel bad about yourself like that makes it okay. You need to be better. -S3E10 Bojack Horseman
Channing
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Posts: 85
Freethinkerland
19.06.2020 23:44:49
Channing

Railophone, First, thank you for your first response which I thought to be very clear, helpful and it also provided me with perspective. Without realizing, I had in fact made it about myself by taking it so personally the wrong way.

My thread is not about the pride contest, I used it as an example. It is about inclusion/exclusion based on personal identity. If you read the full thread, you would understand that my issue is not with the content of the contest. It could have been a contest for blue ears and in the rules, excluded any type of user. It is easy to take one word, one sentence, one phrase out of context and use it to make it about something else. I honestly did not know that themes were allowed to be this specific. I could edit the original post and make it about blue ears that only allows himbos (for example) to enter, and my question would be the same. My own personal connection to it would have been different, I probably would've called it sexist smh. But now I completely understand these themes are allowed and are meant to be supportive safe spaces for specific users. If I'm not making sense to you or if I'm missing your point, please let me know.

I used that contest bc it was my first time seeing inclusion/exclusion with the exception of state specific contests. My question was very specific, "is it acceptable to host contests that exclude players based on sexual orientation?" and in the original post, I shared my own opinion, reasons for having that opinion and asked for other thoughts. Not only did I welcome other perspectives, I learned from them. 

I also made a scenario about a contest that excludes one gender and asked if that was allowed. I am grateful for all the answers to my question and explanations. Had I known we were allowed themes geared toward supporting specific groups, I would not have asked the question. This is 100% my fault for not understanding the rules of BimboLand thoroughly and I will have to read up on that so I don't ask questions like this going forward. Early on in the conversation I apologized because I realized it was not at all discrimination.

I am trying to bring the conversation back on track which is the rules of inclusion/exclusion based on personal identity. Everyone has helped me understand not only that it is allowed but of it's benefits. 




19.06.2020 23:44:49

~~You can't argue with IGNORANCE~~


Channing
Level 42
Status: Citizen
Sex Appeal: 55938
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Posts: 85
Freethinkerland
20.06.2020 00:19:48
Channing

As an example - If I change the content, my question would be the same. I fully understand now (thanks to almost all of you) that theme specific contests that include/exclude groups are allowed and are supportive safe spaces.

Hello! Out of curiosity, I was wondering what the rest of BL think about hosting a contest that excludes citizens based on personal identity (i.e. sexual orientation, gender, skin color...etc).

Personally, I think this is discrimination which I thought the citizens of BL were against. For example: If a blue ears included in your outfit contest is hosted for Himbo's only and states that you must be born male and have a Himbo to enter, is that ok? Although I was not born male nor do I have a Himbo, I would like to join because I would like to highlight and celebrate Himbo style.

It is hurtful that I can not join because I have always wanted to be a boy. I enjoyed wearing clothing intended for boys but because of family and gender restrictions, I was pushed into fulfilling my gender role as society dictates to be normal (this is actually a personal truth but not the point). I only chose a bimbo as my doll because that gender is what I see in the mirror. It breaks my heart that I cannot participate.

What are your thoughts on contests that exclude individuals based on their personal identity (i.e. sexual orientation, gender, skin color...etc).?



FYI I made a change to make a point. My question has already been answered.



20.06.2020 00:19:48

~~You can't argue with IGNORANCE~~


LillyAnn
Level 235
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Freethinkerland
20.06.2020 01:23:05
LillyAnn

It's true, there are no rules related to contests, rules made by BL. The only official BL contest is PBFC (former DQFC) and BL set its rules only for that one, i.e. player has to be lvl 10 at least, it costs 500b$, once you enter the outfit there is no chance to change it and such.
All other forum contests are not official and made by players, so the host set the rules. Due that general BL rules have nowhere any notion of rules for forum contests, I guess forum rules apply on forum contests. The host can set their own contest rules as long as they are in accordance with forum rules.
That can be wide for interpretation, but I assume common decency, no-spamming, following the topic and not posting something off or unrelated, no hate, etc. are such type of rules that should be respected in forum contests too.
Most of everything else depends on contest host/s - i.e. participants have to have blue ears, contest allows himbos only, contest where only pride thematics entries are allowed for instance, LGBT+ only contest, etc. If host requests that all entries must include blue background for instance, entries that don't have blue background won't be judged and won't apply for winning. That's also one example of exclusivity, it's just very simple with blue background because it's so obvious.
Recently there was a contest where hosts invited designers to design kids. Participants were provided with kids body bases and they could draw them outfits, hair, face or modified the body to certain degree. That type of contest is also kinda exclusive, though maybe not so obviously. It is exclusive in sense that it was a contest for designers and players with digital drawing skills. Anyone could entered, but what's the point if they don't know digital drawing? Yet again, in such type of contest it would be very obvious if someone who is not skilled in digital drawing tried their luck. So that's an example of the contest that could interpreted as both inclusive and exclusive. It's open for all (inclusive), but it's pointless to join if you are not artist (exclusive) because as not skilled you have little or no chances to compete with very skilled players.

In short, based on forum rules, common decency and common sense, I can assume that any type of contest is allowed (inclusive and exclusive) as long as it's not hurtful, offensive, dismissive in any way, if it doesn't promote violence toward group of people, humanity in general and animals and such type of things. For instance, it seems as Ok to cast the contests for himbos only and add some terms by which entries would be judged such blue ears or red socks. It would absolutely not be Ok to cast the contest which theme is violence or rape, no matter whether or not it would be open for all, or for bimbos only or himbos only, because simply it promotes violence and it would be ugly contest theme. Btw, based on forum rules such theme would be forbidden.

Gender restrictions in terms real life male or female - I guess it wouldn't be Ok. Restriction based on doll, bimbos only or himbos only that sounds Ok.
Feminists contest for instance - I guess it would be Ok to exclude cishet men, but to keep it inclusive for everyone that identifies as a woman and feminist.
Contest based on real life race, ethnicity, nationality, I have no idea whether or not it would be Ok tbh I guess that one is tricky...

Most of these questions are touchy and tricky. The line between acceptable and unacceptable could be very thin based on what and who is included and excluded.

20.06.2020 01:23:05

Welcome new bimbos & himbos ❣   

I identify as transparent, pronounces who/where
(don't take this seriously, because if you do it's your own fault)

Channing
Level 42
Status: Citizen
Sex Appeal: 55938
Reputation: 21273
Posts: 85
Freethinkerland
20.06.2020 01:49:37
Channing

LillyAnn
Wow, thank you for this, it's all incredibly informative!

To be clear, I never had an issue with the pride contest, I never said it shouldn't happen or users didn't deserve it.
My confusion came from my own belief that BL as a whole was a safe space. I assumed (incorrectly) everyone was welcome to participate if they choose, with some exceptions, and the moderators intervene if someone doesn't follow the forum rules, have common decency and/or common sense (I used your words because I couldn't say it any better).

It's interesting though that you say "Gender restrictions in terms real life male or female - I guess it wouldn't be Ok. Restriction based on doll, bimbos only or himbos only that sounds Ok." The male or female part in real life would not be ok, but your sexual orientation in real life would be ok?

It also makes sense that it is up to the contest host as long as they're respectful and not breaking any rules. If anyone doesn't like it, they can simply not participate and find another. 

I really appreciate your time to write all of this.

20.06.2020 01:49:37

~~You can't argue with IGNORANCE~~


Thotticus Tiddies
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Atheista
20.06.2020 03:22:12
Thotticus Tiddies

lmao were still on this??? stop bitching about being excluded from a contest. lgbt people are excluded from LIFE. this place is fucking full of homophobes wtf 

20.06.2020 03:22:12
burn the government
fuck the police
Cum_Dumpster
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Freethinkerland
20.06.2020 04:07:42
Cum_Dumpster

Talked to the OP and the thread is getting closed since her questions were answered. Thanks for all the input you guys!

20.06.2020 04:07:42
ChumDumpster's wife irl  
Update 2022: Site has been soured for me so I took a break. Still not certain about coming back...

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