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The October DQFC is racist

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Category
The Runway
Posts
21
Created
06.10.2019
Author
Gertrudis
Gertrudis
Gertrudis
Level 38
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Posts: 15
Atheista
Gertrudis
06.10.2019 13:58:47
Gertrudis
I just saw what the theme is for this month and yes it is pretty racist. The term “oriental” is outdated and offensive to describe people because the historical context of the word is drenched in stereotypes of Asians, and it encourages yellow face and cultural appropriation. 

06.10.2019 13:58:47
railophone
railophone
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Freethinkerland
railophone
06.10.2019 15:13:22
railophone
Hey, I first mentioned this was pretty offensive in the October DQFC voting thread. I’m an asian woman living in the US and it definitely carries a lot of racial baggage here. 
The responses I got were along the lines of: this term has no racial connotations in european cultures like poland, germany, netherlands, etc and that they never meant any harm by it; and if anything, they meant it positively - meant to mean something fantasy like, beautiful, adventurous, etc...
The thread was eventually closed - I sort of asked it to be - because I felt I had heard the same thing over and over again, and that there was nothing else I or anyone else could say to steer the conversation elsewhere.
At this point I think bringing this up again won’t be as well received and will just be a repeat of the last thread. I definitely appreciate the thought you put into this though. Feel free to message me if you’d like to talk about it. :) 

06.10.2019 15:13:22
You can't keep doing shitty things and then feel bad about yourself like that makes it okay. You need to be better. -S3E10 Bojack Horseman
Gertrudis
Gertrudis
Level 38
Status: Citizen
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Posts: 15
Atheista
Gertrudis
06.10.2019 18:33:42
Gertrudis
I am in no way Asian but my first reaction was that it is really racially insentive. I had looked to see if anyone else had brought it up and didn’t see it. 
I doubt anyone meant for it to be offensive but the idea of Asians being “oriental” has a whole connotation of  being mysterious and exotic which I feel has contributed to fetishization. I also think that it is a bit problematic to view Asian as being one culture when it’s an entire large continent. I’m really sorry that you tried to bring up this issue before and it was dismissed without much consideration. 

06.10.2019 18:33:42
Ulvhild
Ulvhild
Level 200
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Secville
Ulvhild
06.10.2019 19:15:26
Ulvhild
Just go with Occidental as next month's theme, and we'll call it even. ;)

Jokes aside, as Railophone says this has already been discussed. Apparently, the term "Oriental" is now considered racist (at least in English) and should be avoided. But those of us that used it prior to this contest, either because we speak a different language where the term is not considered racist or because we're of a different generation that grew up with this term in our (neutral) History books, never meant any harm by using this word. Please consider this before you flat out accuse your fellow Bimboland residents of being racists, because that's not very nice either.

I apologize for having used the term "Oriental" in the past, and I apologize on behalf of the other players here that did the same. We didn't mean to offend anyone, but it's very clear that we did, so again, I'm sorry, the lesson has been learned. 

I do wonder, though, how many players will opt out of this month's contest because they're now afraid of being labeled as racists if they play around with garments from other countries and cultures. And I do think that it's a pity that we can't all be a little bit more understanding towards each other, even when it's a matter of a caucasian using outdated terminology that in modern time has become offensive.

And last, just for the record, Oriental is not synonymous with Asian. (Please don't kill me.) Used correctly, for example in Art History (which was my field of study back in the days), Oriental only refers to a certain part of Asia, it does not include all of Asia. But I'm Norwegian, so I get the feeling I'm not allowed to point this out.

06.10.2019 19:15:26
      - Life is a pretty cheesy game, but at least it has good graphics -
Gertrudis
Gertrudis
Level 38
Status: Citizen
Sex Appeal: 41375
Reputation: 15976
Posts: 15
Atheista
Gertrudis
06.10.2019 19:30:20
Gertrudis
Although it has been discussed the Railophone said that the discussion was deleted and I never saw it. Just because a conversation has already taken place doesn’t mean that the topic is closed as long as it persists.

Personally, if there was an activity that I was considering and  someone pointed out that that activity was racially insensitive and caused harm to a particular group of people, I would not participate in that activity and I would be grateful to whoever pointed it out. I think that’s a good thing rather than a pity. I think that the larger concern is that an activity has the potential to do damage to a group of people not that participating in the activity could potentially label someone a racist. 

06.10.2019 19:30:20
Gertrudis
Gertrudis
Level 38
Status: Citizen
Sex Appeal: 41375
Reputation: 15976
Posts: 15
Atheista
Gertrudis
06.10.2019 19:39:33
Gertrudis
I would also like to point out that harm is caused whether it is meant or not and racism exists in many forms whether or not it is recognized or examined. 
Going forward, if the only thing that comes out of this is that people have learned from it, that’s a victory I can take. If you want people to be More understanding of each other, that has to include when non-white people and their allies try to raise an issue of racial concern. Understanding and unity does not happen without respect and advocacy.

06.10.2019 19:39:33
Sandi Lut
Sandi Lut
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Antitheocra
Sandi Lut
06.10.2019 19:40:05
Sandi Lut
Gertrudis wrote:
Although it has been discussed the Railophone said that the discussion was deleted and I never saw it. Just because a conversation has already taken place doesn’t mean that the topic is closed as long as it persists.
The topic was not deleted it was just closed by me. I couldn't help but noticing that the discussion was not appreciated and the point was made. No one messaged me to object to that so I assume it was ok to close it. It is right here: DQFC October 2019 - voting
I meant no disrespect by closing it, I just saw that discussing it was not appreciated after the point was made.

06.10.2019 19:40:05
Happiness is inside yourself

Gertrudis
Gertrudis
Level 38
Status: Citizen
Sex Appeal: 41375
Reputation: 15976
Posts: 15
Atheista
Gertrudis
06.10.2019 19:43:34
Gertrudis
Sandi Lut wrote:
Gertrudis wrote:
Although it has been discussed the Railophone said that the discussion was deleted and I never saw it. Just because a conversation has already taken place doesn’t mean that the topic is closed as long as it persists.
The topic was not deleted it was just closed by me. I couldn't help but noticing that the discussion was not appreciated and the point was made. No one messaged me to object to that so I assume it was ok to close it. It is right here: DQFC October 2019 - voting
I meant no disrespect by closing it, I just saw that discussing it was not appreciated after the point was made.
Sorry, I meant to say closed. I didn’t mean that it was disrespectful to close it, I only meant that I didn’t see it.


06.10.2019 19:43:34
Alexstrasza
Alexstrasza
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Agnostica
Alexstrasza
06.10.2019 19:47:45
Alexstrasza
I don't think anyone thought people who use this word in a non-offensive way or whose cultures/nations use this word in a non-offensive way tried or even wanted to make it seem offensive. But like Torrenoia pointed out in the other thread, different people experience the world differently. So like, someone from Slovenia or Germany or Norway or Poland or Denmark or wherever in Europe wouldn't find this offensive. But we're not the ones whose cultures were subjugated to colonization and/or slavery for centuries (I think, I always slept through my history lessons). So we can't even begin to understand how someone from those countries feels when they hear this word. Bimboland is super culturally diverse and that's fantastic! But we gotta be aware that sometimes our words that seem super innocent to us might sound much different to others. When this happens, we gotta be understandin' and do our best to learn from the experience. There's no need to apologize for seein' or usin' the word differently, everyone knows you didn't mean any harm by it. You just gotta acknowledge the unfortunate event that happened and not make things worse or even start a fight over it (I'm not pointin' fingers at anyone with this, I'm speakin' in general).

For example, whenever I'm abroad with my family, we gotta take care how we use our language. 'Cuz when we say "he's not here" in our colloquial version of Slovene, it sounds very similar to a racial slur used against black people. We received some stares in Iceland when we finally realized it and now we just make sure to express ourselves a bit differently. We weren't at fault, neither were the people 'round us, but we gotta take other people's feelings into account when talkin' to 'em or near 'em. 

So please, ladies (and the occasional gentleman). Everyone's allowed to express themselves. I will ask one last time though that this thread doesn't derail into another 'round of people accusin' others of stuff. That goes for both sides. In the end all you're doin' is upsettin' other people, chiefly among 'em both Railophone (who has every right to be offended and doesn't deserve to have her opinion marginalized) and Namastis (who didn't mean ill and doesn't deserve to be persecuted like the worst kinda criminal).

06.10.2019 19:47:45
Such misplaced zeal... Their eyes remain closed to the true path. Not like you... my devoted Chosen...
railophone
railophone
Level 64
Status: Citizen
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Reputation: 71395
Posts: 1076
Freethinkerland
railophone
06.10.2019 19:57:08
railophone
Please don't come at Gertrudis for her post. To be clear, Gertrudis said the theme itself was racist, not the people who voted for it or choose to participate in it. I myself will be submitting an outfit - this wouldn't make me racist. There is a whole difference from cultural appropriation and appreciation, however that is a whole separate topic that I don't think I should delve into right now.

What's concerning to me is that people are so afraid or so upset to be called racist, as if that is the worst insult in the world. Rather than taking immediate offense and defending their actions, perhaps it would behoove them to explore why they're being called racist or insensitive. Like we all discussed, all of this is different because of our diverse cultures. Just because in your culture, it is a neutral term, doesn't mean it's the same elsewhere. (For example, negro means black in Spanish, but you would never use that term to describe a black person. Similarly, forensic science in the US still uses the terms mongoloid and negroid to describe asians and black people. Would you ever use those terms in real life? I would hope not.) 
If someone told me I said something racially insensitive and hurt them, I would feel upset - not because I am being called a racist, but because I said something that hurt someone. I would try to understand why what I've said is hurtful and not do the same in the future. Being defensive over being called racist helps nobody but your own ego, and it limits you from growing as a person. Prior to going to college and experiencing far more ethnicities than I was exposed to when I was raised, I no doubt was racist and insensitive myself. I still mess up, and I still offend people without meaning to, but I try my hardest to research and understand what I've done wrong so that I can be a better person in the future. Sure, it isn't nice to be called a racist. It also isn't nice to disregard someone's feelings or opinions because you didn't like being called racist.
In medicine, there's a reason why there's an increasing focus on cultural sensitivity training for medical professionals- how can you provide the best care for someone if you don't see things from their point of view? The same should be applicable to realms outside of medical care.

No one ever said you're not allowed to give your opinion based on where you are from. However, based on the definition of "oriental" and "orient" per the Merriam-Webster dictionary (please tell me if your country uses another English dictionary):

While yes, the term does not generally mean all of Asia, it was clear that part of the intent of the theme was to include the idea of the Arabian Nights, or the collection of Middle Eastern folk tales called One Thousand and One Nights, which takes place in the "Near East," which is still part of Asia. Had the theme meant simply Middle Eastern folklore, maybe "asian" would not have been an appropriate term because it is too broad. But the creator of the theme said she wanted to extend the theme to include the "Far East," which is what "oriental" typically means. If we are to consider that vast area of land and cultures, I think "asian" would be more than appropriate to describe it.

I hope this didn't sound too aggressive. I just simply cannot think of any other way to put my thoughts anymore. I tried dancing around the issue in the last thread, and that didn't work, so this is a more clear picture of what I am thinking. 

06.10.2019 19:57:08
You can't keep doing shitty things and then feel bad about yourself like that makes it okay. You need to be better. -S3E10 Bojack Horseman

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