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DQFC October 2019 - voting

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Category
The Runway
Posts
31
Created
21.09.2019
Author
Iulja
Iulja
Iulja
Level 122
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Reasonopia
Iulja
21.09.2019 20:00:53
Iulja
You can vote for the theme for October here.

The poll will be closed on September 27th, 20:00 GMT.


21.09.2019 20:00:53

railophone
railophone
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Freethinkerland
railophone
21.09.2019 21:40:48
railophone
Regarding the first option in this poll-
This isn’t targeted at anyone but please, coming from an asian woman, don’t call us oriental. It’s not really appropriate in this time and day; even though it literally means “from the orient/asia,” it was used to make asians look exotic and foreign in a time where there was heavy discrimination against asian people, particularly in the US. 
Not all people will agree with me about the roots of this word, but I think we can all agree “asian” is already an appropriate term to describe asian person. 
Thank you for hearing me out. 

21.09.2019 21:40:48
You can't keep doing shitty things and then feel bad about yourself like that makes it okay. You need to be better. -S3E10 Bojack Horseman
Kami_Rayne
Kami_Rayne
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Freethinkerland
Kami_Rayne
01.10.2019 03:15:14
Kami_Rayne
I saw the new DQFC and was blown away by how utterly tone-deaf the title of this month there is. I see that railophone already made a very reasonable request/argument to have the name changed just for it to fall in deaf ears. 

Damn, y'all. WTF? 2019 may be a shit show but c'mon!! "Orient"?! No one but racists call Asian people "Orient" anymore.

01.10.2019 03:15:14
Started from the bottom, now I'm ... oh wait, I'm still at the bottom.
Cum_Dumpster
Cum_Dumpster
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Freethinkerland
Cum_Dumpster
01.10.2019 03:50:09
Cum_Dumpster
Quick question by someone who isn't totally up-to-date on acceptable word usage regarding Asian countries:
I was under the impression that using the term "orient" or "oriental" in the present day was much more acceptable when NOT referring to a person or people? Like, don't call a Japanese man an "oriental" anymore because it's outdated and offensive, but referring to the wide swath of Asia and the middle east as "The Orient" while maddeningly vague, is sometimes alright, instead of naming all countries involved? Please let me know, I'm curious and would like to learn from others here on this topic.

01.10.2019 03:50:09
ChumDumpster's wife irl  
Update 2022: Site has been soured for me so I took a break. Still not certain about coming back...
Kami_Rayne
Kami_Rayne
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Freethinkerland
Kami_Rayne
01.10.2019 04:36:08
Kami_Rayne
Honestly, except for in my minority studies classes way back in my University days, I've never heard anyone use the term Orient to describe anyone of Asian descent. 

Orient is a term for rugs, not people.

I'm going to be blunt. No. Don't use the Orient to describe the middle east or the wide swath of Asia as you put it. Each country is diverse with its own customs and culture. To use a blanket term to describe diverse peoples is frankly ignorant. I don't see the difficulty in naming the countries one would be speaking about else why would you speak about them? And yes, I know the word Orient has Latin roots but it's a word encumbered by cultural baggage. 

Orient is associated with a time period when Asians had a subordinate status and is evocative of exoticism and with old stereotypes of geisha girls and emasculated men. (Totally not my verbage, props to Professor Frank Wu)

01.10.2019 04:36:08
Started from the bottom, now I'm ... oh wait, I'm still at the bottom.
Alexstrasza
Alexstrasza
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Agnostica
Alexstrasza
01.10.2019 04:37:45
Alexstrasza
The Orient is what was used in the times when India was still a British colony (like 70 years ago?). So I think it's also outdated and offensive, especially given the other responses. My knowledge is kinda rusty since it's been like 3 or 4 years, but in geography we refer to the regions accordin' to their cardinal directions to keep things impartial and objective (even though the borders between these areas are totes arbitrary). So in Asia we have:
South-west Asia (Yemen, Oman, United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Turkey, Iran, Iraq, Georgia, Azerbaijan and Armenia), South Asia (India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Afghanistan, the Maldives, Nepal and Bhutan), South-east Asia (Indonesia, the Philippines, East Timor, Brunei, Papua New Guinea, Singapore, Thailand, Malaysia and I think also Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam), East Asia (China, Japan, Mongolia, South Korea, North Korea and Taiwan),Central Asia (Kazahstan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan).So besides the ethical and  moral problems, it's also more appropriate from a geographical point of view to refer to these areas with a vastly different geographical attributes (physical and human) as Asian, much like European when talkin' 'bout France or Poland or Bosnia or Iceland.

01.10.2019 04:37:45
Such misplaced zeal... Their eyes remain closed to the true path. Not like you... my devoted Chosen...
railophone
railophone
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Freethinkerland
railophone
01.10.2019 04:38:45
railophone
I personally don't like using the term "orient" in any manner, even if not referring to a person. There are plenty of countries that still do use the term, and there are many usages of the term where it is considered "more appropriate", ie oriental rugs, oriental spices, etc. I hesitate to let it be used at least in the US, where "orient" and "oriental" are still tied to  historically racist roots.
I think there are clearer ways to express what "the orient" is supposed to mean. You said it yourself - Asia and the Middle East. Although I think there are some people who prefer West Asia to Middle East due to the eurocentric ideas from which this whole distance + east terminology originated. 
Point is, I'm not trying to make this into a liberal millennial snowflake thing (as I know some would just love to call it that). I just think there are more appropriate terms that don't carry the burden of eurocentrism/colonialism/racism but still mean the same thing. 

Also, just like, lol at making the entire Asian race the theme of a fashion contest? I'm not angry, but I'm not pleased either. Clearly I'm thrilled to see cliche chopsticks in hair (wtf) and Japanese katanas with Chinese cheongsams and a rice hat.

01.10.2019 04:38:45
You can't keep doing shitty things and then feel bad about yourself like that makes it okay. You need to be better. -S3E10 Bojack Horseman
Ulvhild
Ulvhild
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Secville
Ulvhild
01.10.2019 07:07:38
Ulvhild
Ouch! I am apparently one of the completely oblivious people that honestly had no idea that an old term has become racist in modern-day language. I voted for the "Oriental" theme and was actually very happy to see it as it made me think of the Oriental Express and oriental culture in general, which I've always assumed was an accepted term. Had it been called "Asian" I wouldn't have voted, "Asian Culture" probably also not. For me, Oriental refers to culture, not people, and I doubt anyone else using the term means it in a racist way.

I googled around a bit in order to understand the term better, thinking I must've missed something, and found this article: https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-tsuchiyama-oriental-insult-20160601-snap-story.html
It would seem that where some people are indeed insulted by the term, others are not, so I think it's safe to assume that this month's theme at least wasn't meant to be racist. If that helps at all...

I can't help but panic a little right now, as I try to twist my brain around and figure out what else I'm saying that could be interpreted as racist. :(

01.10.2019 07:07:38
      - Life is a pretty cheesy game, but at least it has good graphics -
Namastis
Namastis
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Secville
Namastis
01.10.2019 08:35:20
Namastis
So I feel like I should say something, because the idea was mine and was not my intention to offend anyone. The very first idea was Tales from the Arabian Night - just like the book. But then I thought we have so many beautiful kimonos and also the faces made by you, railophone, that would be pity to not use the occasion and not extend the topic.
To be honest, I never meant to be racist by using this term. It came from my lack of knowledge and trust me, I consider myself as the last person to behave badly against anyone.
Term "Asian" doesn't really match my idea because doesn't describe well the fact that the idea has started from a completely different perspective. From beautiful makeups, gold jewelry, rich dresses, by gines and mystical creatures to wonderful kimonos and maybe even the world of j-pop from the heart the Shibuya crossing. 
Though, as I said. The intention was not to offend anyone. You may call my closed-minded, but for me orient is a kind of magical, mystic beauty. I love that culture and I'm really amazed how beautiful women might be. 
So. Everything I can say is I'm sorry. Please accept my honest apologies. Of course I'm ready to face any kind of consequences. But once again. I didn't mean anything bad, if you believe me or not. 

01.10.2019 08:35:20
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Obywatel
Obywatel
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Secville
Obywatel
01.10.2019 08:36:39
Obywatel
Well, I don't know who's idea was this theme, but I can say only one thing. For example, in Poland word 'orientalny' which translates 'oriental' doesn't have any negative meaning at all. We have 'oriental' restaurants, travel agencies advertise holidays as 'oriental 'etc.
And it isn't like: Asia +middle east = orient. We hardly use this words as a synonyms. In polish mounth oriental means more like exciting, mysterious, colorful, interesting. It's much more than a geographic region. 
I just want to say that I don't think that someone meant it in racist way.  I understand the problem though. 



01.10.2019 08:36:39

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